Yu: Well, it's like this. At that time many publications had returned my works, including the Peoples' Literature, because I always first sent my drafts to them and Harvest. When they returned my submissions I would feel disheartened but also very rebellious. But eventually I understood something-- that when I sent my works to a periodical, only if my work was more superior than the others could I catch the attention of the editor. Only then could they discover a new author and be willing to cultivate them. Actually, I think this is a good thing. Like you just mentioned, if I had won a national prize prematurely, I would have been misled. So those first steps, from beginning to end, were always small accomplishments, not big ones. Afterwards, one winter night in southern China where there is no heating, I read Kafka's 'Country Doctor' while wrapped in a quilt. I was dumbstruck, I never knew fiction could be written like that!

Zhang: When was this around?

Yu: 1986. At that time I had gone to Hangzhou, and the Peoples' Literature Press had just printed the 'Selected Works of Kafka'. There was only one copy left when an writer friend of mine went to buy it. He gave it to me when I left. It was the second night when I read 'Country Doctor'. The deepest impression came from his descriptions of the horse-- the horse was extremely free. Our traditional education in fiction writing told us to tie one character to the next. This is a lot like a chain. Lets say for example that someone goes out of a door, they go downstairs, after that they will probably face an alleyway or a large street. How would Kafka write it? 'They walked out the door, and then they are at the square.' There is no fooling around with cushioning.

Zhang: Episodic.

Yu: Yes. On this point, Kafka enlightened me. Why do I say that I am a writer with very good luck? Because I didn't have great success but also didn't experience failure. Failure would have driven me back to pulling teeth. I'm extremely thankful that from 1983 onward I was publishing works, but I believe my true works were from 1987 onward.

Zhang: Had you read Kawabata Yasunari earlier than Kafka?